Pramana.

This is the story about the very shitty actions of Pramana, and Kazka, and how they tried to bring down AS-NS because of jealousy?

AS-NS is an asexual forum with an emphasis on debate. It first went live at the start of 2017. It had actually been going for a little time before that. It was originally a secret group for like minded people to discuss AVEN, and be a place where people could say what they liked. It was frequented by a group of people who had all been victims of AVEN’s love of handing out discipline like smarties.

In February, it opened up to the public and had a highly drama filled start with various AVEN moderators creating posts that they then used to try and get AVEN to black list the site.

From the outset the site was run and managed by LordGrep (the founder, and the person who built the site), and Toffington. This then expanded as the management team picked up new members.

There are some key principles of AS-NS that really need to be discussed here in order for the rest to make sense.

AS-NS had the following rules:

  • All decisions were arrived at by the users. No decisions were ever taken unilaterally.
  • The management team took decisions that needed immediate action, like removing posts that broke the ToS, and contacting members that were misbehaving.
  • No posts or threads were ever deleted. They were all just moved to a hidden section called “The Vault of Terror”.
  • It is a founding principle that any and all decisions about changes to the site would be voted on by the site as a whole.
  • Even the site owner respected the decisions of the management group and the members, and was frequently outvoted. He never went against the wishes of the site.

Some time about 6 months after we had gone public, Pramana joined the site, and was an active participant. He eventually got on the management committee, and was given site Admin status. There were only ever 3 people who had admin status.

The next thing to bring up is the fact that LordGrep had a really rough year. He had to deal with the frequent attacks from AVEN, and the actions of one person who set out to stalk him and make his life a misery. This led to Grep taking breaks from all the forums, and leaving AS-NS in the hands of the management team.

After the first of these absences, Pramana did an amazing job keeping the place running, and creating a huge number of interesting topics. Such a good job was done that LordGrep on returning started a vote to make Pramana the “President” of AS-NS.  The vote was carried, and the roll was given. Grep also wrote a glowing review, and a massive thank you to Pramana.

Things were great.. Then in early 2018 there were more issues with the person that was trying to make out that Grep was some evil predator. But worse than this, AVEN went back on its word to give AS-NS a link on its site. The process was messy, and the whole thing was a shit show (there will be a story about that here soon). At the time, AS-NS was the busiest it had been in the whole time it had been going, and it really looked like the place had started to grow on its own accord with about 5 new members a day, and over 5000 page views a day.

Kazka had started a discord server for AS-NS, and we were also planning a host of upgrades and a move to a new site in order to try and shake off the reputation that it didn’t deserve.

LordGrep though got quite ill, and disappeared. By now though, this was not a new thing, and there was some contact via a member who was in touch with LordGrep by text.

Here are the facts about what happened next in chronological order.

  • Grep takes a break, and leaves the site thinking that it was in the safe hands of Pramana, and the rest of the management team.
  • Activity on the site started to slow down.
  • Parmana started complaining that the site was “Just Greps friendship group”.
  • Pramana started to tell people that the “Site is dead”, and “Use the discord server, we are moving there”.
  • Pramana then started to delete great swathes if the site, and because the post count started to show what he was doing and people noticed, he then disabled the post count.
  • Pramana then deleted a bit more of the site every day.
  • Pramana then deleted the change log, so that nothing could be recovered.
  • Grep got a text from a member of the management team saying that Pramana had gone rogue, and was deleting the site.
  • Grep returned, and tried to recover the site.

Grep contacted Pramana and Kazka for an explanation and there just wasn’t one that made any sense at all.

Piecing it all together with what other people had said was going on at the time, the only explanation that makes any sense is that Pramana & Kazka wanted to leave AS-NS and start their own site up, but to give it a head start they decided to take as many AS-NS users as he could. So by announcing to the world that AS-NS was closing, and taking over the AS-NS discord server, plus by killing off all the content, he could in fact get what he wanted.

One thing that needs to be pointed out before one listens to Pramana’s wishy washy bullshit excuses about trying to tidy up, or that he was trying to bring sections together is that:

  1. He had no right, nor permission from AS-NS to do this. Everyone knows this.
  2. It is part of the site ethos, its fabric, that no posts are ever deleted.
  3. Never in the history of AS-NS has anyone ever removed things from the change log. The hosting has unlimited space, there is no need whatsoever to delete the recovery log. The only reason anyone would delete this is if they wanted to permanently delete something. Deleting this log is not easy, and would have taken effort. It is not something that could be done by accident.
  4. This was a process that took weeks. It was not just a single action. Pramana had manually gone into posts, selected them for deletion, or moved them into a category for deletion individually, then deleted a small batch, then went into the change log and deleted that. This happened again and again over the time span of at least a week.
  5. He went to other efforts to cover his tracks by removing the post count “Because there was something wrong with it”. There was nothing wrong with it, it was just that people noticed that post counts were shrinking.
  6. He cannot claim ignorance on anything. He had been on the management team for over a year. Not even Grep edits things without the agreement of the group.

What Pramana and Kazka did was just so low on so many levels. If you want to do something to help right this wrong, there is something you can do:

  • If you are a part of Pramana’s stolen discord server, just tell your friends and move over to the AS-NS one. We are the people that invented the ethos and rule book that Pramana stole.
  • Support AS-NS   Join the site, and help us in our transition over to the new look of the site.
  • Tell as many people as you can about what happened, so that others have the opportunity to decide if they want to continue supporting this sociopath.

Personally, I just could not understand what on earth made someone decide to actively destroy the hard work of someone just because they didn’t like the fact that less people were active when Grep wasn’t about.

The fact is that Pramana never once invited anyone to AS-NS. Nearly everyone who was there, was there because Grep had messaged them personally and asked them to come and join. Pramana refused to even use an AS-NS banner in his ‘Signature’ on AVEN. Other than making interesting topics on AS-NS, he did nothing whatsoever to help AS-NS run, and in the end he thought nothing of trying to destroy the site that had literally made Grep ill by the stress he was under.

In the end, we have estimated that a good 70% of the site was permanently deleted, and it is another up hill battle trying to regain members and kick start our community.

You may ask “Why has it taken until now for this story to be told?”. The answer to that is simple. I was just going to let it go, as I thought that all who needed to know what had happened knew. But I have seen how utterly smug Pramana has been about the whole thing, and I thought it was time those who support him knew what happened.

Before you just dismiss this, I suggest you ask some of the people who were there at the time. If you stop by AS-NS, there are at least three people who were there at the time, and I still have all of the logs of the conversations from before and after. A lot of posts disappeared, but the management log is still intact. I kept all of the posts that Pramana made claiming that the site was dead, and other people also have copies of their communications with Pramana.

Kazka feels that it’s just a good thing for the community for there to be more choice. Something I agree with wholeheartedly. Something I think he would think was a non answer if I setup something for their site, and then got everyone to join it, and then said “It’s mine now, you can fuck off”.. Such lovely people aren’t they?

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